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Moderators: Telperiar, zackrob, scoobydoo1, lildevil13
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| Bonesro |
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  Registered Member #1090 Joined: Fri Jul 10 2009, 04:20PMPosts: 79 | scoobydoo1 wrote ... vennus9d wrote ... Logic was invented by people which are not perfect. I see it like a battle of mindsets. The context is not about logic, but about some universal rights who are violated. That is incorrect. Logic is a science and application of reason. Everybirdy uses it, Lawyers especially. I'm surprised you are unaware of this. However since you're obviously unfamiliar with its uses, especially since the reasons given to legitimize this petition is flawed, its no wonder you fellas have a hard time digesting what is being explained here. (no offense intended, just an observation) scooby, look what vennus said and what you understand. vennus said that logic as science was invented, like many others sciences by humans (people), than, she said people are not perfect, therefore, neither what they invent. I remaind you that you say logic... yet we can have juridic logic too. I think you would be referring to traditional logic, so next time please specify. Do not overlook the fact that in logic, opinion is considered a sentence that anyone consider it true.. and the true sentence corresponds to a certain reality. wrote ... And also do not forget, you and your group "willingly" subjected yourselves to acme's whims and fancies on your own accord. You can't fault anybirdy if you keep going back for more "abuse". You talk about the TOS ? We can debate it all night and day, also let us debate why moderators are not including in TOS as third part of Acclaim (neither the VGMs). Rings a bell? What part of TOS refers to forum ? Did Acclaim asked Microsoft when their files install in my PC ( in windows) over TOS ? You see TOS like a commercial agreement or ? wrote ... Regardless of how you fellas wish to "re-define terms and/or twist them", it is still an undeniable & unchangeable fact that acme has exclusive authoritative rights to US/EU9D and its forums. That right of exclusive comes from ? You are mixing up the things now. Indy21 and Acclaim have a contract which gives rights over the publishing of game. Forum is some adjacent part. Exclusive rights in law means monopoly, which is not the case. Indy gave same 'exclusive right' ( to quote you ) to others publishers too. Acclaim owns in a trade raport only Acclaim trademark. All the others trademarks of 9Dragons are own by Indy21. If they would be own by Acclaim would be register. wrote ... I challenge you to ask all your petitioners to read this thread, and if they still wish to sign your petition... at least they are doing it after being informed of the facts and "your logical basis" behind it. Because to do otherwise, would only mean that your group is intentionally trying to misled them by the means of their ignorance on the subject. What? You are saying the true (your true) and everything you say is logic and therefor what we say it has no logic and the petition must be cancel. Sorry to disappoint you, but as you said " willingly subjected yourselves" it is same with the petition. Interesting huh? All this discussion for you is the same as the Acclaim, the same in terms of the site/forum. But as I said, whether you're a moderator or administrator on site / forum / blog you can't do what you want, is okay as long as is in accordance with the laws, otherwise we can discuss... And I saw that you using terms: "to impose Acclaim" ... I said I didn't go in first with a court order  scooby and I forget to tell you something. Maybe you came in here with a logic book you wrote. You know, people respect authority as Telperiar said, than I may reconsider. Till than you and I have same rigt to opinion. wrote ... Vennus, are you saying that you are perfect and thus don't need logic? Still I got no answer about why government is legitimate. Vennsu said like other sciences and everything what human does is not perfect. If you say that a man is perfect, then, his creation is perfect. vennus said the man is not perfect, therefore, no's creation ( in this case the logic science). In a democracy, the leadership of the state is legitimate only when : (a) it comes from people and is supported in accordance with the will of its majority, that is when those in whose hands lies the power state can be chosen and controlled directly or indirectly only a limited time (b) state power is exercised in accordance with constitutional principles and in particular with legal principles, the separation of powers and fundamental rights. Government is legitimate in a democracy because people elect it. Voice of people = people's desire to adopt a specific law or to change a specific decision rule. This will be recorded by Parliament and subject to referendum. Voice of the people registered in some Constitutions. To achieve the desired result, a certain percentage of the voting population must be given the signature to that effect. According to the principle of sovereignty of the people, all power comes from the people. Therefore, all power by the state must be legitimate by citizens of the state. The principle of sovereignty of the people does not mean that policy decisions are taken directly by people, such as through a referendum. It states only that all individuals of the decision owes its position that the people elected them directly (eg, Members of Parliament) or indirectly elected representatives (eg parliamentary governments or administrations, called by them). DemonB, law student huh? Last time I was a secretary at a law firm. I can only laugh ... [ Edited Mon Dec 14 2009, 11:55AM ] http://www.youtube.com/user/Bonesro http://projectai.wordpress.com/  | ||
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| vennus9d |
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 Registered Member #1776 Joined: Thu Dec 10 2009, 11:24AMPosts: 5 | Let them be the autority in here, everyone can choose willingly what she or he do... | ||
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| Telperiar |
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   Registered Member #1 Joined: Sun Jun 15 2008, 04:02PMPosts: 527 | Its really entertaining, Instead of getting back to the core of the problem, explaining how to solve the giant loopholes in their claimed "right for absolute free speech", Bones drift of to some sort of existentialism followed by democratic processes. Accepting the flaws? Hell No! Acclaim must have had held a democratic vote in the parliament to become legitimated authority about the website they started them self. As we know all website operators are by default powerless within their own project. Unless having ratified the declaration of human rights, there not even allowed to setup a forum! Deletion of a thread demands the presence of at least three lawyers, controlled by a randomly chosen notary, to be legal ... all of this does not apply to the AI Project blog of course ... ... excuse me, are you still seeing the light? [ Edited Mon Dec 14 2009, 12:19PM ] Pretty much retired from MMO gaming due to vast amounts of work. | ||
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| vennus9d |
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| Registered Member #1776 Joined: Thu Dec 10 2009, 11:24AMPosts: 5 | Telperiar wrote ... Its really entertaining, Instead of getting back to the core of the problem, explaining how to solve the giant loopholes in their claimed "right for absolute free speech", Bones drift of to some sort of existentialism followed by democratic processes. Accepting the flaws? Hell No! Acclaim must have had held a democratic vote in the parliament to become legitimated authority about the website they started them self. As we know all website operators are by default powerless within their own project. Unless having ratified the declaration of human rights, there not even allowed to setup a forum! Deletion of a thread demands the presence of at least three lawyers, controlled by a randomly chosen notary, to be legal ... all of this does not apply to the AI Project blog of course ... ... excuse me, are you still seeing the light? Collateral victims of autority as Telperiar can only see the small piece of the puzzle. By the way I see you have trouble literal currents. [ Edited Mon Dec 14 2009, 12:28PM ] | ||
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| Telperiar |
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| Registered Member #1 Joined: Sun Jun 15 2008, 04:02PMPosts: 527 | vennus9d wrote ... Collateral victims of autority as Telperiar can only see the small piece of the puzzle. By the way I see you have trouble literal currents. "Victims of Authority"? Pretty funny how you try to puzzle a picture of the world, while no even knowing how to handle the those few pieces of Acclaims website. Questioning authority is pretty OK, just sometimes theres no point in it. I mean, still didnt got your photo on the homepage of microsoft.com? I wonder since they dont have the authority to deny it, do they? Its an expression of freedom to have your face on every website you want it to be, wondering theres so many websites without a billion photos! Well, I am impressed how you handle selective perception since 5 pages of a thread. Theres not many people able to question the existence of trees while standing in a wood. Pretty much retired from MMO gaming due to vast amounts of work. | ||
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| Bonesro |
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| Registered Member #1090 Joined: Fri Jul 10 2009, 04:20PMPosts: 79 | Telperiar wrote ... vennus9d wrote ... Collateral victims of autority as Telperiar can only see the small piece of the puzzle. By the way I see you have trouble literal currents. "Victims of Authority"? Pretty funny how you try to puzzle a picture of the world, while no even knowing how to handle the those few pieces of Acclaims website. Questioning authority is pretty OK, just sometimes theres no point in it. I mean, still didnt got your photo on the homepage of microsoft.com? I wonder since they dont have the authority to deny it, do they? Its an expression of freedom to have your face on every website you want it to be, wondering theres so many websites without a billion photos! Well, I am impressed how you handle selective perception since 5 pages of a thread. Theres not many people able to question the existence of trees while standing in a wood. I doubt therefore I think, I think therefore I am... I will come with the conclusion after I will get an answer from Acclaim ( after we will finish our action). http://www.youtube.com/user/Bonesro http://projectai.wordpress.com/ | ||
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| scoobydoo1 |
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   Registered Member #136 Joined: Tue Aug 26 2008, 12:50PMPosts: 1703 | This is like trying to explain the birds and the bees to a 3 year old child who knows nothing about the real world... Its clear that either our different proficiencies at the English language that is preventing the message from being understood correctly, or its the difference in mental development that is keeping us from understanding each other properly. I hereby conclude that there's probably nothing more this discussional thread can offer, since most of the valid points has already been covered. And its now up to the Project Ai authors to decide for themselves whether they wish to act upon the knowledge given, or blindly follow their own sense of warped logic. @ Project Ai authors, I strongly urge you all to give your fellow petitioners the chance to be aware of all the facts and perspectives(from all parties) found here in this thread. As Your first and foremost Responsibility is to ensure that your fellow petitioners know what it is they are signing up for. Should you continue to knowingly abuse the fact that most of them are probably ignorant to the subject even before signing the petition. You may just prove to everybirdy that you are probably no better than the "Acme" you are trying to fight. [Locked] [ Edited Mon Dec 14 2009, 05:10PM ] J9D Szechuan Server: ShenMo CS11 SF Nuker, MoShen GB5 HD Healer (Aug 2008 to Nov 2009) Status: Retired (Server Closed) US/EU9D Bardo Server: --Kabuto-- CS9 HD Healer, -Hanabi- GB8 SF Hybrid (Aug 2007 to Aug 2008) Status: Retired (No longer wish to play a defective version of 9Dragons, especially with PARA-SPAMMING AD-BARS with FUNKY DISCO LIGHTS) | ||
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| scoobydoo1 |
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| Registered Member #136 Joined: Tue Aug 26 2008, 12:50PMPosts: 1703 | [Unlocked] I've unlocked this thread slightly after 2 months since it began, as the organizers behind this petition stated that they intended for a duration of 2 months to collect online signatures. We will now see if there is any updates and/or results from the Project Ai authors regarding this petition campaign. J9D Szechuan Server: ShenMo CS11 SF Nuker, MoShen GB5 HD Healer (Aug 2008 to Nov 2009) Status: Retired (Server Closed) US/EU9D Bardo Server: --Kabuto-- CS9 HD Healer, -Hanabi- GB8 SF Hybrid (Aug 2007 to Aug 2008) Status: Retired (No longer wish to play a defective version of 9Dragons, especially with PARA-SPAMMING AD-BARS with FUNKY DISCO LIGHTS) | ||
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| davidjason64 |
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 Registered Member #451 Joined: Tue Sep 30 2008, 06:50PMPosts: 52 | Well, there certainly haven't been any results in terms of action from Acclaim, nor am I expecting any simply because of the whole domain issue. It's their domain and won't be forced to host speech they object too. We're all free to run our own domain too. | ||
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| Satanhas |
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  Registered Member #55 Joined: Thu Jun 26 2008, 11:40AMPosts: 120 | So... nothing happened as I expected? You either part of the problem or part of the solution http://help-littleangelina.com/ | ||
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| calcrist |
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 Registered Member #712 Joined: Sun Dec 28 2008, 07:43AMPosts: 154 | Correction, Satanhas: nothing happened as MOST of us expected And really, if there were any positive results worth a damn, Im sure bones would have already opened a thread with said results by now Props to Irrelevant for my avatar | ||
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| lildevil13 |
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lildevil13  Registered Member #265 Joined: Wed Sep 03 2008, 09:41AMPosts: 746 | still no news ? Bones any comment ? Don't Hate the player, Hate the Game ! Lost Saga homepage [/link] | ||
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| Telperiar |
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| Registered Member #1 Joined: Sun Jun 15 2008, 04:02PMPosts: 527 | Well their Petition signatures raised from 77 to 86, almost a signer per week. Who knows maybe they printed and sent it over to Santa Cl... erm ... Acclame sticking a Letter with it: "We the signers demand you to do whatever we are funny of, or else ... we continue playing as before! Beware yourself of the consequences ... sort of! Legal steps can ... not ... be taken, because my Lawer felt of the chair laughing (but did not forgot charging me $50 for his time)" If I was with Acclaims Staff, I would gift each of them 10 Coins for the humoristic attitiude of their petition. If I was with AI, I would stop the childish crying about unfair VGMs and start living. Pretty much retired from MMO gaming due to vast amounts of work. | ||
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| scoobydoo1 |
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| Registered Member #136 Joined: Tue Aug 26 2008, 12:50PMPosts: 1703 | Telperiar wrote ... "We the signers demand you to do whatever we are funny of, or else ... we continue playing as before! Beware yourself of the consequences ... sort of! Legal steps can ... not ... be taken, because my Lawer felt of the chair laughing (but did not forgot charging me $50 for his time)" I think I'd just joined the lawyer on the floor when I read this part. Thumbs up to Telpy for comedic effort... ^-^ [ Edited Fri Feb 26 2010, 01:00PM ] J9D Szechuan Server: ShenMo CS11 SF Nuker, MoShen GB5 HD Healer (Aug 2008 to Nov 2009) Status: Retired (Server Closed) US/EU9D Bardo Server: --Kabuto-- CS9 HD Healer, -Hanabi- GB8 SF Hybrid (Aug 2007 to Aug 2008) Status: Retired (No longer wish to play a defective version of 9Dragons, especially with PARA-SPAMMING AD-BARS with FUNKY DISCO LIGHTS) | ||
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| Kevinrh |
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 Registered Member #487 Joined: Tue Oct 14 2008, 03:27PMPosts: 274 | Telperiar wrote ... Well their Petition signatures raised from 77 to 86, almost a signer per week. Who knows maybe they printed and sent it over to Santa Cl... erm ... Acclame sticking a Letter with it: "We the signers demand you to do whatever we are funny of, or else ... we continue playing as before! Beware yourself of the consequences ... sort of! Legal steps can ... not ... be taken, because my Lawer felt of the chair laughing (but did not forgot charging me $50 for his time)" If I was with Acclaims Staff, I would gift each of them 10 Coins for the humoristic attitiude of their petition. If I was with AI, I would stop the childish crying about unfair VGMs and start living. Hehe   | ||
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| Satanhas |
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| Registered Member #55 Joined: Thu Jun 26 2008, 11:40AMPosts: 120 | Why not just lock this topic again? I doubt we will ever see any result... You either part of the problem or part of the solution http://help-littleangelina.com/ | ||
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| mischiefmonk |
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 Registered Member #117 Joined: Sat Aug 23 2008, 05:17AMPosts: 281 | I've signed the petition Not playing either 9D's cos of boredom, can't be bothered to start over on JPN, and Acclaim 9D just sucks XD | ||
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| Satanhas |
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| Registered Member #55 Joined: Thu Jun 26 2008, 11:40AMPosts: 120 | mischiefmonk wrote ... I've signed the petition Did you readl the whole topic? You either part of the problem or part of the solution http://help-littleangelina.com/ | ||
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| Bonesro |
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| Registered Member #1090 Joined: Fri Jul 10 2009, 04:20PMPosts: 79 | scoobydoo1 wrote ... [Unlocked] I've unlocked this thread slightly after 2 months since it began, as the organizers behind this petition stated that they intended for a duration of 2 months to collect online signatures. We will now see if there is any updates and/or results from the Project Ai authors regarding this petition campaign. This petition was send to Acclaim officials and not to The Hermit or smaller people from there and the result was seen, ended up with the fire of Historian. Now at least AI Project knows the person who to talk about Acclaim and that is one of the person who put some money into Acclaim capital. Well their Petition signatures raised from 77 to 86, almost a signer per week. Who knows maybe they printed and sent it over to Santa Cl... erm ... Acclame sticking a Letter with it: "We the signers demand you to do whatever we are funny of, or else ... we continue playing as before! Beware yourself of the consequences ... sort of! Legal steps can ... not ... be taken, because my Lawer felt of the chair laughing (but did not forgot charging me $50 for his time)" If I was with Acclaims Staff, I would gift each of them 10 Coins for the humoristic attitiude of their petition. If I was with AI, I would stop the childish crying about unfair VGMs and start living. And you are not us or either our boss... Even so I am telling you this for all of you in here : at least we did something, but many just complaints and do 0. Good luck with this forum ! http://www.youtube.com/user/Bonesro http://projectai.wordpress.com/ | ||
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| Satanhas |
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| Registered Member #55 Joined: Thu Jun 26 2008, 11:40AMPosts: 120 | I want proof of that it was your petition which made TheHistorian fired before I believe it... But on the other hand if you succeded with what you wanted gratz for you. You either part of the problem or part of the solution http://help-littleangelina.com/ | ||
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| scoobydoo1 |
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| Registered Member #136 Joined: Tue Aug 26 2008, 12:50PMPosts: 1703 | Goodluck Bonesro. (Honestly) For whatever it's worth. J9D Szechuan Server: ShenMo CS11 SF Nuker, MoShen GB5 HD Healer (Aug 2008 to Nov 2009) Status: Retired (Server Closed) US/EU9D Bardo Server: --Kabuto-- CS9 HD Healer, -Hanabi- GB8 SF Hybrid (Aug 2007 to Aug 2008) Status: Retired (No longer wish to play a defective version of 9Dragons, especially with PARA-SPAMMING AD-BARS with FUNKY DISCO LIGHTS) | ||
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| calcrist |
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| Registered Member #712 Joined: Sun Dec 28 2008, 07:43AMPosts: 154 | *Facepalm* So, lets "pretend" for a moment that your cute little pettition actually got Historian out of 9d (Even though theres no real evidence supporting that). So what? What did you accomplish besides transfering Historian? Its not like it hasnt been done before in the first place -_-' Did any of the long standing game breaking bugs get fixed? No Is the Item Mall still grossly overpriced? Yes Have they given the position of Site Admin to a more capable individual? As far as Ive seen, not really Has anything at all been done to address the role imbalance? Not a damn thing Have they even admitted it? No Least youre doing something, eh? Well, sorry if I burst your bubble, but honestly, Historian might have been removed from 9d even if you did not send the pettition. As far as Ive seen, absolutely NOTHING of what you address in the pettition was done. The mod team hasnt been replaced, people who got banned for talking back at Acclaim are still banned (surprise surprise), the forums are even more censored than before You set out to get something done, failed to do it, and now youll take credit for whatever change might be interperted as positive. Why in hell should I be impressed about that? Props to Irrelevant for my avatar | ||
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